The International Rafale forum

The international forum about the Dassault Rafale
It is currently Wed May 16, 2012 11:12 pm

All times are UTC



Welcome
Welcome to the international Rafale forum

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-22
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 416
Location: Near Paris (France)
You're not the only one to wonder about this point ;-)

_________________
Have a look at me now ! :lol: (rules)

In case of dispute, put your glasses, then «Duck and cover !» FAS do it !


Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-22
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 18
AVON wrote:
That is not a real simulation of a MiG-29 or an Su-27.

TMor wrote:
Yes, but would a RBE-2 mimic an older mechanically steered array ? The pilots couldn't limit the agility of their beam, and the inherent characteristics of avionics still show their strengths during such exercises. That's the point.

No the RBE-2 does not mimic any radar in any variant of the Su-27. The Rafale can detect its opposition, perform high "G" maneuver and maintain radar lock-on far better than any Su-27 radar. The situational awareness of the Rafale is great and the Su-27, well it is the Su-27's big weakness! That is my point, if the Typhoons were imitating the Su-27 with fidelity then, the Typhoon should not be judged on its dogfighting capabilities because it was not using its dogfighting.
To put it another way.... if the F-22A was imitating an F-15, and the Rafale was mopping the floor with the F-22, would you objectively.... judge the F-22s combat capabilities as the F-22A or as the F-15s???


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-22
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 416
Location: Near Paris (France)
AVON wrote:
That is my point, if the Typhoons were imitating the Su-27 with fidelity then, the Typhoon should not be judged on its dogfighting capabilities because it was not using its dogfighting.

I really wonder how a pilot can restrain his aircraft in the fury of a dogfight... Do you know if it's the way it's done ?

_________________
Have a look at me now ! :lol: (rules)

In case of dispute, put your glasses, then «Duck and cover !» FAS do it !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-22
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:22 pm
Posts: 12
I hope you are not teaching any boxing or Jiu-jitsu to young childs :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-22
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:34 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 416
Location: Near Paris (France)
Definitely not ! But why this question ?

_________________
Have a look at me now ! :lol: (rules)

In case of dispute, put your glasses, then «Duck and cover !» FAS do it !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-22
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:33 am
Posts: 18
AVON wrote:
That is my point, if the Typhoons were imitating the Su-27 with fidelity then, the Typhoon should not be judged on its dogfighting capabilities because it was not using its dogfighting.
TMor wrote:
I really wonder how a pilot can restrain his aircraft in the fury of a dogfight... Do you know if it's the way it's done ?

Aggressor pilots do it all the time! Whether it is a Mirage 2000 imitating an enemy fighter while the Rafale learns how to best exploit its new and awesome capabilities or, F-15Cs using the American "Big Wall" formation at Cope India (2004) against the IAF Su-30MKs. The USAF and IAF used similar ROEs... maximum missile shot range 20-mi, SARH (generic Alamo / Sparrow type) missiles, etc. Basically WVR combat. Smart money says, today somewhere on the Korean Peninsula aggressors pilots are simulating North Korean aerial combat tactics.
Yes, the USAF was surprised at the proficiency of the IAF fighters and bombers.
(The reason the Indian AF wanted a 3:1 numerical advantage in the air over the F-15s was, those are the sort of numbers they could expect to encounter in aerial conflict against the Pakistani AF!)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-22
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 149
AVON wrote:
Aggressor pilots do it all the time!

AVON wrote:
Aggressor pilots do it all the time!


Well in Corsica there were NO question of "simulating" a Mig or any other aircraft.

It was a ROE chosen by RAF to evaluate Typhoon capabilties vs Rafales in a turning fight , all aircraft were in the same configuration and the score is clear:

Quote:
= Not like the one we claimed against the Typhoons after combat in Solenzara, Corsica, in September (9 set up: 8 to 1 for the Rafale) he said.


READ: In Sept 2009, the 1/7 meet the RAF Typhoon (29 Squadron) and trounced them 8 to 1 and according to him again during ther ATLC it was nothing like you or Jon Lake/Jakoniko are suggesting...

Enough of this nonsense, Jon Lake never interviewed the 1/7 Patron, Lt Colonel Grandclaudon, he wasn't even in the UAE during the ATLC even less at the AdlA press conference.

He was purposely given a wrong information on the result of the encounter Rafale vs F-22 by an "unknown source" to thank him for b!tching Peter Collins after his article on Rafale for Flight International, and took the bait and proposed PM to his fans in the AFM forum with the false info... Too bad.

Pictures taken during both engagements with HUD and OSF cameras proves he was and still is not telling the truth about both (F-22 and Typhoon) and during the ATLC, RAF Typhoon were simulating.... RAF Typhoons.

YES you read WELL, they were in the "BLUE chest" side, so this french journalist got the wrong information from the wrong source....

Quote:
LieutenantClolonel Grandclaudon wrote:

During DACT [...] we shared Red Air & Blue Air, and the ratio was pretty fair.

We spent our first week in Al Dhafra doing Red Air versus Typhoon [...]

The results I gave out [4:0 & 3:1] were when two Rafale took on four Blue Typhoons with a pair of simulated AA-10C Alamo on board. [...]

We simulate the AA-10C most of the time when we play Red Air.

The rest are usual lies and desinformation stories all officialy denied by the 1/7 patron.

French Rafale pilots says it repeatedly, Rafale is better than Typhoon in A2A and they got enough evidences of this for allowing themself to write:

Quote:
Il est extrêmement manœuvrant et ainsi redoutable en Dogfight. Par exemple, face à un Eurofighter engagé en combat à vue avec un départ à égalité, nous savons qu’il nous faut quelques dizaines de secondes pour valider un « gun kill ».
http://richard.feeser.over-blog.com/ext/http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-romain/


It is (Rafale) EXTREMELY maneuvrable and so formidable in dogfight. For example, confronted to an Eurofighter in a WVR conbat starting at equality, WE KNOW that we need only a few ten seonds to validate a gun kill.

The guy saying this is a Captain with the 1/7 Squadron under Lt Colonel Grandclaudon command.

Obviously NOT what is reported in the so called "interviews posted by Jon Lake/Jakoniko.

Then the same AdlA Captain comments:

Quote:
L’Eurofighter est un avion taillé pour le combat aérien et il le fait moins bien que le Rafale qui est pourtant polyvalent (combat aérien, bombardement, reconnaissance).

The Eurofighter is an aircraft designed for Air combat, and doesn't do this as well as the Rafale which is still more polyvalent (Air combat, strike, Rece).



These sources are coming straight from the same people who Jon Lske claims to have interviewed and still doesn't say anything like one can read on his "interviews.

We know who's telling the truth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:30 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 416
Location: Near Paris (France)
I didn't read the article myself, but in the A&C (25th March), there is an article about a Rafale vs F-22 encounter...

Quote:
Les premiers échos nous parviennent d'une rencontre passée inaperçue à l'automne 2010 aux Emirats arabes unis (EAU) entre des Rafale français et des F-22 américains. Au dire des pilotes de l'armée de l'Air, le Rafale n'a pas démérité en combat tournoyant contre son dangereux adversaire. Moins lourd que le Raptor, qui (volontairement ou non) ne profite pleinement des avantages de sa tuyère orientable qu'à basse vitesse, le Rafale se serait montré plus manoeuvrant en "dogfight" à moyenne et haute vitesse. Et les pilotes français d'en redemander...


  • Once again, Rafale didn't loose the face against the Raptor ;
  • Rafale is lighter ;
  • F-22 pilots would only fully benefits from TVC at low speed, intentionally or not, making the Rafale more manoeuvrable at medium and high speed dogfights ;
  • French pilots were asking for more...

_________________
Have a look at me now ! :lol: (rules)

In case of dispute, put your glasses, then «Duck and cover !» FAS do it !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ATLC in UAE [moderated] Rafale vs Typhoon, Rafale vs F-2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:22 pm
Posts: 12
TVC shld be more efficient at high/low supersonic speed

Aerodynamically as the Raf has close coupled canards it should be even less efficient at high speed than the Typhy unless the last one benefits from a inferior pow/weight ratio wich he has not.

Clearly TVC are in needs in the next future (as a longer nose ?)

~S!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
suspicion-preferred