The International Rafale forum

In general, for some reasons, French don't hope for anything from India.
We even have the feeling that Dassault aren't doing their best there.


However, this thread may be useful to help focusing on the little information we have about this deal, especially about Rafale in India.


Years ago, Dassault tried to sell 40 Rafale to India, and failed.

The MMRCA was issued because India did not substantiate a contract for Mirage 2000's.

Then, we know how it's going, but let's focus on Rafale for this thread...


In May 2009, a report said that Rafale was out of the deal, rejected. Though it was denied by both Dassault and the IAF, A&C reported that France had to make efforts on some technical points, suggestively the anti-radiation missile... ?
The Rafale was, in fact, still in the race, and left France for the trials in September (18th) 2009.
http://www.hindu.com/2009/09/26/stories ... 470500.htm


The problem is that this kind of press releases are far from giving details. So, let's write about officious reports...

On 29th of September 2009, Rafale had done its trials in Jaisalmer. It's said that Rafale performed pretty well, very pleasing, when trying to air refuel with Midas, land at max weight, and operate under very hot weather. It's said that F-16 and F-18 had issues under those conditions. The AESA received some praise too.

Meanwhile, from TTU International, DSI, A&C, we've had different reports stating that EAU and Qatar were trying to sell there Mirage 2000 to India, or that Dassault is trying to sell the UAE Mirage's to India (thus competing with the Thales modernizations !). That's very unclear what's going on on that matter !

Recently, Pepe Rezende (Pedro Rezende is a defense journalist) reported some interesting details on a Brasilian forum, and here come some of them :
-Rafale flew half of the sorties of the F/A-18E for exactly the same job, demonstrating its omnirole capability ;
-It could do everything the Indian wanted (only one other competitor could do so) ;
-Rafale enjoyed an unquantified superiority over the competitors in Leh, for example using half the runway distance needed by the S Hornet ;

For the last point, I know Scorpion has something different to tell us... I'd be happy to see his opinion here too !


I remember there's nothing "official" with the un-sourced claims I wrote here. Feel free to believe them, or not. I'm just trying to feel the information gap we've got on this deal.

I've have nothing different to tell. Time will tell us and maybe some information will be released about the trials in the future. The only part I find funny is that virtually everyone claims that he has done well.

I thought you reported a detail from Leh on Eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk


You're right !

Well yes there was something said, but with so many claims who knows what is right. I lean back and wait for the results. I hope that one of the 3 ECDs will make the run.

Yet to be confirmed :

Typhoon and Rafale may be shortlisted in the MMRCA competition.



http://www.timesnow.tv/New-fighters-for ... 351233.cms

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/air/j ... _1_n.shtml

From 11/08/2010

The official spokesman of the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has downplayed media reports that France's Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon have emerged as favourites to win India's Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) contest.

Speaking to Jane's on 10 August, Sitanshu Kar said no decisions have been made about the programme following the MoD's receipt of a comprehensive trial report on the six rival fighters competing for the INR420 billion (USD9.1 billion) contract.

Some media outlets in India had earlier reported that the results of the MMRCA technical evaluations, which concluded in mid-2010, had prompted the Indian Air Force (IAF) to recommend to the MoD that the shortlist be narrowed down to just two aircraft: the Rafale and Typhoon.

The other platforms competing for the 126-aircraft tender are Boeing's F/A-18E/F, Lockheed Martin's F-16IN, the Russian United Aircraft Corporation's MiG-35 and Saab's JAS 39 Gripen NG.

If Typhoon and Rafale really are the final contenders, the chosen one will underline a lot of strategical choices for the IAF (and also, I know, a lot of corruption ).

Those two fighter are somehow very close (high performance twin-engined, delta-canard etc.) but were designed from different philosophy, as we all know.

Do the IAF want a light multipurpose fighter, successor of the beloved Mirage 2000, able to to as well interception or long range low altitude attack missions (successor of the Jaguar? Maybe a potential nuclear bomber?).
Or do they prefer a heavier and faster interceptor (not better right now, but with better evolution possibilities on the radar, engine, TVC etc.) with limited long-rang strike abilities, but a good potential in front-battle interdiction (Brimstone missile, I'm looking at you! )


The Rafale will clearly be a multipurpose and somehow offensive choice, able to replace the Jaguar in attack (and maybe nuclear tactical bomber) and the Mirage 2000 for both bomber and interception.
The Typhoon sounds much more like a defensive choice, with high interception capabilities and attack abilities optimized for short/medium range interdiction.

I have no idea what will be the final choice. We have to take in consideration the other aircrafts of the IAF (Su-30, LCA etc.), the geopolitical dimension (with the EU, the US, Russia etc.), the corruption of course (we cannot forget this point when talking about India).
But whatever the choice is, it will either show the strategical will of the IAF (if chosen for the good reasons) or finally lead to strategical changes (if chosen for money reason)


PS: Hi ZX, didn't recognize you with your new name

Hello PD7,

I think we can t know the final shortlist, they are saving the secret of report list and give to MoD,
now it is politic game, like in Brazil. it is so long to wait the first contract for rafale.

May be nobody, because india buy many and many SU-30.

Yes, i get trouble, when i try to register on international forum of Tmor, i can t create my username because is to short, i must use alphabet radio, Zoulou X-ray for save my nickname, i prefer zx, but i don t have choice .


Best Regards

livefist:

Mig 35 trouble, the interessting part is the result experience of tejas figther, they undestand why it is so difficult to build a jet fighter with transfer technology or not. the situation on the partner ship with russia
not so positiv has expected.

Mig 35, look to be first one out of MMRCA racing.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/mm ... um=twitter