The International Rafale forum

Hi guys,
just found this:
http://www.strimoo.com/video/16592902/T ... Vimeo.html

Pretty interesting stuff included. Enjoy

TMor : http://www.kakimediadesign.com/2009/tha ... he-rafale/
The above link is off.

Very interesting, thanks.

The part where they claim that SPECTRA allows for missile firng puzzles me because it was not the case for A2A missiles when the F2 SPECTRA overal capabilties were disclosed but AASMs which aren't classified as missiles.

Does this mean that the F-3 can fire MICAs vs a target detected by SPECTRA?

I already suggested that Thales were working on the capabiltiy but await confirmation/validation.

Colonel Moussez :

Source: Rafale International; issued July 3, 2006
database-thread-rafale-official-information-only-t16.html

Spectra can designate targets for weapons which would require an active transmissions... He is not talking about Scalp or AASM, IMO. And no ARM need active transmission, as far as i know...


The video also says "3D localization" for Spectra... A 2D detection and a ground map allow the 3D localization, but what about the missiles ?

As far as i know no weapon manufacturers would refer to "Active transmission" which doesn't mean much, this article is interesting but the technical used terms aren't accurate and rather misleading.

The sole AAM for Rafale is MICA it never was quoted as been fired using SPECTRA while targets CAN and ARE designated to AASMs using SPECTRA targeting capabilties.

If this capabilties had existed previous to F3 standard DGA would have conducted a campaign of validation firing as they did in the case of remote targeting with Link 16, never heared of it.

More to it, it is one thing to target a fixed ground target with SPECTRA, yet another one to target an aircrafts moving in 3D because this is the main difference between ground and air targets.

The addition of another axis (vertical) and the speed at which the shooter and targets are moving are certainly not helping writing the softwares for SPECTRA A2A targeting capabilties.

This leads me to think that if this is an existing capability, it have been added to the F3 standard and still have to go through test-firing.

It might well be something which is in the works and not yet available as some stuff they present there (HMD f.e.). If the RWR is capable to gather elevation data as well it would be possible to determine its altitude on the base of the bearing, range and own relative altitude. There were reports about the F-22 being able to launch an AMRAAM with the AN/ALR-94, though some reports suggest that the radar is occassially used for range information as well. Maybe a similar approach is taken? Anyway it could be possible, albeit the accuracy of the firing solution is reduced in comparison to the radar for example. I think the reference of active transmissions actually refer to the radar.

Another hypothesis rely on the range in question.

An mere HMS can cue a missile seeker in WVR, with no range information. I think it's reasonably feasible to have Spectra cueing a Mica, provided the target isn't too far.

Rafale may be able to shoot a Mica at a fighter just as some other types shoot at SAM radars with ARM when they are threatened. It's a self-defense scenario, which do not compromise Rafale.

For interception, Rafale still use its radar, depending on RoE.

Well it seems to me that 3d localisation means that you get coordinates and altitude, which means it can detect an aerial target. That said as wingman mentionned it would be hard to compute a firing track because of the unknown target speed. Unless you fire right at the target and update the trajectory with datalink when the azimuth/alt of the target move relative to the plane?

Nic

SPECTRA certainly uses triangulation and maybe amplitude measurement for ranging emitters. Azimuth bearing accuracy is below 1°. The ranging accuracy is certainly good, otherwise it would be impossible to target ground based radar sites for the AASM. The main question which occurs here is, how long it takes the SPECTRA to geolocate the target. If SPECTRA is capable to gather evaluation data (which 3-D localisation as presented by Thales suggests) it would be possible to correlate the target height with your own height and elevation derivation of the target. Speed could be calculated on the base of closure rate for which the system takes the threat emitters range and updates it at the smallest possible time. Taking into account the Rafale's own aspect to the emitter and its own speed it should be possible to calculate the closure speed and speed of the threat emitter. As said the interesting part here is how long SPECTRA needs to update the threat emitters location. A radar would be more accurate here, but it might be accurate enough for a proper, albeit not optimal firing solution. All this could be improved if two Rafales fly a little bit spaced and exchange their data via MIDS. An interesting concept for updating the missile in flight could be using the AESA radar to provide the link to the missile as a pencil thin beam, thus reducing the probability of intercept close to 0.
The result is a stealthy targeting capability for AAMs against aerial threats and this concept might be particularly interesting against stealth threats.
Note that this is grey theory, it could work this way, given the system performs well enough.

Do the AESA antennaes of the spectra suite allow for anything other than jamming? For instance rangeing a target detected by spectra;

Nic

In theory it should be possible, albeit I doubt that its the case. Wouldn't make much sense anyway as you could use the radar to do that.