The International Rafale forum

Let's not forget that what makes an aircraft fly is lift, a firecracker attached to an anvil wouldn't make it pull a 9 g turns, it is the element AIR which support our passion, so let's talk about it as it should be done...

What are your views of Dassault-Aviation work on Rafale and what do you think of its design and aerodynamic features?

I feel the Rafale is a great aircraft but, the perception is not as good as some other 4.5 generation fighters due to the lack of export sales. This is not an indictment of the Rafale, this should be a reflection on what the French Government is willing to do to support the sale of the Rafale. No one doubts it is a good "bomb truck" but, in the macho world of fighters it has yet to earn the respect it deserves!

"A bomb truck is a good fighter to which everything bar the kitchen sink have been attached". LOL!

You can turn a good fighter into a good bomber, the other way round is impossible to do.

Interesting to argue about it AVON. I believe that this problem will soon be solved by two different ways :

- I'm really convinced that before next summer we'll have sold Rafale to at least one foreign countries (UAE, or Brasil? or Lybia) so the doubting perception caused by the lack of export sales (perception upholded with talent by the Rafale competitors of course ) won't be any more posible.
- As it has been noticed during international exercises the Rafale has great capabilities in short range AA combat ("dogfight"), due to his aerodynamic and especially the semi-ventral location of the air inlets.
However it is true that in long range AA combat the actual radar is a bit short/suffers from a certain lack of capabilities in long range detection. This loophole will be solved with the new RBE2 AESA which has been succesfully tested since more than 1 year now (the Switzerland Air Force pilots who had one Rafale with this new variant could notice how it offers a real betterment in all the prestations compared to the "normal RBE2").
The RBE2 AESA has shown an increasement of the detection range by 50%, will be available as soon as 2011 and is proposed to all the potential clients ; it will allow the Rafale to use the future european "Meteor" long range (60nm) AA missile.

The next 60 Rafale which will be ordered within a few months for the french air force (for deliveries between 2012 and 2015) will all have this new radar.

In the USA, the term "bomb truck" is not complimentary to a fighter! It infers or suggest the aircraft is not the best dog-fighter but, is good in the light attack bomber role. The F-4 Phantom has the respect of the aviation community, people don't call it a bomb truck, although it was. It could fight well in the vertical plane, not well in the horizontal but, it could carry a heavy bomb load a long ways. Now a modern good example of a bomb truck is the F/A-18 (in particular the E/F versions) is referred to as a bomb truck. It is one of the few fighters which don't have a forum! (The F-14, F-15A-C, F-15E, F-16, Rafale and, Typhoon all had or have forums for their fans, all except the F/A-18 community!)



I personally am pulling for for Brazil. The USA has abuse many countries in the 'Americas'!


Detection range increase is nice but, its quality will be determined by how well it is able to maintain radar tracks at the extremes (angles) of its capabilities. How many "G's" can it pull and how many "G's" can the opposition pull and still maintain lock-on?
One thing that has been alluded to is the first rate EW systems, I have read nothing concrete.


While additional range is nice but, there are a few parameters to improve the radar other than detection range. Things such as, an low probability of intercept (LPI) mode, immunity against jamming, etc.

AVON (aka -Adrian)

Well, this is a huge difference with the French enthusiasts forums, partly because Dassault designs first fighters, then turn them into potent attack aircrafts, the Mirage III, F-1 and 2000 are good examples.

I think disregarding the Hornet and Super-Hornet isn't good for the enthusist community as a whole, and looking at the Rafale as only being better in Air-to-ground is to forget (or not knowing) its politico-Industrial history and design points.

If one loves aviation one must see the qualities of the aircraft, the Hornet was the FIRST true multi-role, meaning it carried succesfuly Air-to-air missions with a Mig kill before carrying over its Air-to-ground mission.

This is what the Navy wanted and with the Super-Hornet they also got what they wanted even so it doesn't fit the Forum fans bills and "Top gun" image associated with combat aircrafts...